During VBS last week, we had a little incident. There wasn't anyone to staff the nursery so I just kept Mugsy in the kitchen with me. {I work in the kitchen away from all the kids. Everybody thinks it's better that way.} Well, one night, she threw a napkin she had used on the floor. Just tossed it on the floor and walked away. Of course, I told her to go get it.
The problem started when she told me "No. I don't want to." Mugsy is 2. This stuff is going to happen. It's just what 2 year olds do. So I gave her another chance "Go pick it up and put it in the trash." I tell her.
She just stands there looking at me. Now~ let me take a minute to explain something here: Mugsy knew what I was saying. I KNOW she knew~ beyond a shadow of a doubt, I know. How did I know? We have gone through this routine a million times. Most of the time when I tell her to pick it up, she just walks over and picks it up. No attitude, no mouth, she just does it and moves on. I want there to be NO confusion about whether or not she knew what I was saying.
I then tell her one more time "Pick it up or Mama's gonna smack your butt."
She doesn't.
So, I do.
As Mugsy is standing there sulking about her swat, a lady from the church comes up and goes "Aww... come on, now, darling. Come pick it up over here. That's right. Bend down and get it. Now, can you put it in the trash? The trash is over here..." I mean, just going on like that.
Then she tells me that Mugsy just needs encouragement~ as in, I was handling the situation wrong.
Encouragement? Excuse me?
Encouragement is for sports and bike riding. Swat's are for willful disobedience.
And that's exactly what it was. She was being willfully disobedient! I know she was because that is her M.O. This baby is smart~ smart as a whip. And she constantly defies me. She tells me 'No." and does things AS SOON AS I TELL HER NOT TO. She is testing me.
But, she's not going to win.
She has recently started running down the back steps and 'running away.' She has never slipped by unseen, but she has had a few head starts and gotten out of the yard and almost out of the neighbors yard before she was caught.
We live on a busy road, people. One of those roads that is so busy you don't know why people live there. {I'll tell you why: When you're 30 and it's the only house you can afford to buy, you buy it. So, my parents bought it. And now it's paid off. So we're staying put.}
So, this leads us to the whole point of this~ how can I be an attached parent and still swat {when nothing else works}? Melissa and I have grown HGF on the principles of attached parenting and similar values. We are both attached parents. We baby wear, co-sleep, nurse on demand, practice baby led weaning and would never even consider Ferber-izing our kids. We buy into this stuff.
So, how do I justify it? For me, it has come down to the safety of my child. I simply can not have her walking off into the sunset with her trusty dog! I can't have her running away at full speed in the middle of the day, either. There are perv's out there. They do exist in real life. And children get hit by cars and die.If I let my baby be disobedient on occasions such as the one that presented at VBS, she will not pay me any mind on the big issues. I love her too much to allow her to get hurt.
And, honestly, I would rather be the 'un'attached mother of 3 kids then the attached mother of a missing or dead child.
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18 comments:
I just wrote on this very subject:
http://lorialexander.blogspot.com/2011/07/spanking-children.html
I lost followers because of it but that is okay. I raised 4 great children! It worked for me.
I agree. We rarely spank, but sometimes a swat on the behind is what it takes. We're not cruel, but we love our children and feel as you do about the safety issues.
Personally, I'm with you. I don't swat my kids on the bottom because my husband is against it, but you know what? You've gotta set boundaries, and you've gotta follow through. If she was willfully disobeying you, she needed a consequence, and you provided that. In my opinion, you are 100% in the right! And yes, I believe spanking and attached parenting can co-exist. I absolutely do.
They absolutely co-exist! I think it's more detrimental to a child to grow up with no discipline. Kids need discipline. Now we don't just smack our kids around, of course. Spanking is a last resort when it is obvious willful disobedience like you said. But it gets his attention...and seriously with his fluffy cloth diapered butt, it doesn't hurt lol
I think it is a very personal choice whether or not to spank. I agree with your reasoning and have done the same exact thing myself when my kids were the same age. You can not reason with a 2 year old and while I would often make things fun and game like to get them to cooperate, I found that often a swat on the behind is all that would work to get them to behave. As they got older and more amenable to reasoning, the spankings got less frequent. In fact, the first spanking I ever gave was when my 2 year old daughter made a mad dash for the very busy road. I think I balled more than she did that night.
I completely agree with you - we do this as well and I still consider myself an attachment-parenting-friendly mother. Children need discipline and knowing that there are boundaries & rules - and like Jessie said above we don't just smack them around! Like you said, it all comes down to the safety & obedience of your child.
Thank you for this post. It's something my husband I struggle with constantly. We HATE spanking our boys. We're certain there's a better way to deal with things - but sometimes there just does not seem to be. We expect that our boys will respond quickly to correction, and most of the time they do. However, at 18 months and 3 yrs old, they sometimes are more willful than we like and need a little "stronger" encouragement (especially the little guy that looks at us to make sure we're watching BEFORE he does something he isn't supposed to do).
You have the right to raise your child the best way you can. There are legal rights that even your two year old daughter has. I am in the opinion that time outs are really a technique that should be used for adults to think about what is happening before taking any disciplinary measures with a child. I really do like reading your blog. I am not in any position to jugde another parent. I would like to share with you that children who are spanked usually become bullies, and their tolerance level builds up therefore spanking can escalate to using belts,fists,or other means. The child who gets spanks usually start spanking their baby dolls, etc. From what I read from your blog you do put your children first. It sounds like the napkin issue "you" probably had a lot more going on at the time. I raised my children in a setting that they had to share me a lot. The battle of the napkin, I bet it really was more like your daughter didn't want to share you. Again we all know our own kids better than others. Bless the lady that attended to your child, your daughter probably needed some encouragings words especially if you disciplined her in front of others. I admire your courage to share this moment with your readers. I hope you accept my comment. It is O.K to agree to be disagreeable. Thank you so much for sharing!
Oh, yes.... 2 year old are learning to test boundaries. My daughter is almost 2 and I am seeing it start already in her. Her older brother was the kind of willful disobedience. What amazes me is there is always someone ready to give "advice" on the correct way to discipline a child. My daughter is more willing to listen to her grandmother or great aunts than me right now. I am also a proud co-sleeping, breastfeeding, baby wearing mama... who does swat if necessary.
I agree and I think both can co-exist. We practice attachment parenting and generally some loving words can go a long way here - we don't yell or spank just to get kids to do something. But when they are disobeying knowingly and on purpose, we need to draw the line somewhere when they are 2, otherwise we'll be old, the kids will be teenagers, and we'll be the ones telling young moms "Just wait until they are teenagers". Why wait? Kids need to know you love them enough to set boundaries instead of letting them do whatever they want. That's how it has been for thousands of years and it isn't about to change. :) My 2.5 year old has really been testing me lately. Some things that aren't that important I let go because I know it will not affect her character (like skipping a nap), but others you need to be on top of (like doing something I know she knows I do not want her to do).
I think our children have very similar characteristics - my little guy is doing the same kind of things. I'm really struggling with the spanking issue. I never spanked my oldest - never. But he had exactly 5 tantrums - I remember every one - when he was little. I jusy wrote a post describing what I'm going through with my little guy right now and would LOVE your input, either in a comment or even email (ohmiss14 at yahoo dot com) if you have time. The situation (along with some other stuff) is literally causing me to lose my mind! http://mccrenshaw.blogspot.com/2011/07/nice-young-men-in-their-clean-white.html
I haven't spanked yet, but have fought the urge so many times! I find the threat on the tip of my tongue, then have to let it go because I just don't know if I'll follow through, you know?
I also have a very spirited 2 year old girl who loves to test my boundaries. and she sometimes defies all methods of conscious discipline. when we are facing off and I've asked her to do/stop doing something, I just walk away to show her that she is not going to win the battle of wills. Usually she does what I asked her to do since she is no longer getting my attention. But sometimes...she just pushes me to the limit. I have only swatted her butt once when she grabbed a fistful of my hair with her vice grip and pulled! No amount of cajoling and sweet talk convinced her to let go, so I popped her on the bottom. She was startled. I was startled. It made me feel terrible, but I think she understood that she had crossed a line. It is a tough lesson for a toddler who is into learning the hard way. If all kids responded the same to one kind of discipline method then there would be no need for so many theories, right?
Anyway, it is clear from your description of the incident that you had exhausted all your options. You reasoned, you provide ample warning. You did what you had to do.
I think the answer lies in the frequency of the smacks....the problem with spanking is that it is typically done in the heat of the moment and in anger....I think there are certain things that a spanking can be a suitable punishment, but it should be lined out ahead of time...now saying this, is not saying that I have not screwed up and spanked my child, when I KNOW I should not have...we are all human, but I try VERY hard to use it as a last resort, and not in the heat of the moment. But I hear you on the absolute defiance, it makes me crazy, and really pushes my buttons...but sometimes we as adults need to take a step back, and pick our battles as well. On the other hand, there is nothing more annoying then someone coming into a situation and telling you how you should be handling it or making you out to be a bad parent...I can't STAND that! They are your children, if you are not physically harming them or at the extreme in handling them, it's really no ones business...that woman just under-minded your authority in front of your child, that irks me more than the little swat you gave your dd.
Wow! It's a little bit disturbing the things folks come up with when trying to defend non-spanking. Spanked children don't grown up to be bullies - abused children do! There IS a difference.. The previous posters are absolutely right! - there is absolutely a place for spanking if necessary, and there ARE ways of spanking responsibly, AND trying to reason with a toddler is more detrimental to their future development than teaching them that consequences DO exist! Bravo for loving your daughter enough to ignore the modern day humanistic gibberish that has produced the ungrateful, "entitled - to - everything" teens of today!
I think it's important to make a distinction between punishment and discipline. The word discipline comes from the latin words related to a student and a mentor. In our house we (theoretically) strive to discpline our children in the naughty moments, rather than punish, which is entirely different.
Discipline seeks to teach and correct and guide, while punishment is defined as "imposing a penalty as retribution for an offense."
I fail to see how a spanking in and of itself can guide and teach a child appropriate behavior. It may be the only thing that speaks to the child in that moment, but I don't think it teaches them anything. Therefore I would consider a spanking a punishment, not a discipline technique, especially if it is not given alongside a conversation about why a certain behavior isn't appropriate.
That being said, we are not anti-spanking, nor do we consider ourselves part of the attachment parenting movement, though we did breastfeed, cloth diaper, etc, etc. We are just parents, doing our best to do right by our kids, and learning more each day.
I also just wanted to point out, that as a mom of a child with special needs, I have learned that just because a child can comprehend and understand a request one day (or many days in a row) doesn't necessarily mean they will be able to comprehend and follow through the next day. Parenting a special needs child has given me a greater understanding of what my kids go through, and thus has helped me show more grace to both my special needs child and my "normal" child.
oh my word, this happened to us 2 weeks ago. a 2 year old standing in the sand refusing to walk to the dock. Arms crossed, I will not walk. So i stood as several people walked by (and a few encouraged me). She was not making a scene. I would have stood there all day. A elderly lady walked by and heard me say you need to walk to the dock. She bent over and laughed at her and said come on let's walk and then encouraged her all the way to the dock. Okay I get they need encouragement but they also need to obey because they are being told to. Safety is exactly why. we always play a game even with my big kids. the game is we will be walking somewhere and I will out of the blue say STOP and the goal is can they stop without taking one more step. Practicing when it is not important helps them obey when a car is coming or a stranger is near. i encourage you to stay strong and know that you are doing what is right. I have no doubt that you are encouraging her all the time
So your two-year-old is acting like a two-year old?
Well, that’s all she can do! Two-year-olds express their frustrations in the only way they can. So-called “misbehavior” is an attempt to communicate when all else has failed.
It’s up to us as the adults in the picture to look beneath that behavior so we can identify the unexpressed, unmet need behind it, because the child so often doesn’t have the words yet to tell us what they need. Is she tired, hungry, physically uncomfortable, angry, frustrated, lonely, feeling left out? It would be so much easier if they could just quietly tell us in words what they really need. But they can’t! It may take a little detective work to understand what the real need is. But it really shouldn’t be that hard to discover – a child’s emotional and physical needs are exactly the same ones we have. They do not have a need to make us angry – unless we’ve given them reason to want to retaliate.
There are many compassionate ways to teach a child to stay away from hazards. We lived on a busy road when Jason was little. We used games to teach him safety rules: “Throw a ball into the road and then tell Mommy it’s there” and “Tell Mommy which hand you want her to hold when you cross the road”. We played them over and over, and he always told me when a ball was in the road, he never ran after it - and always waited for me before entering a road. We also watched him very closely both indoors and out to be sure he was always safe. Spanking rarely teaches what parents intend it to teach. Associating spanking, pain and fear with me may have made him want to get away from me, perhaps into the same road! We never spanked him or punished him in any way - no time-outs either - and now at 30 he is the most responsible kind, and considerate person I’ve ever known.
Don’t let our culture’s mistrust of children color your original belief (at birth, remember?) that this is a completely loving and innocent human being.
This is one of my favorite quotes:
"Kids who have their needs met early by loving parents ... are subjected totally and thoroughly to the most severe form of 'discipline' conceivable: they don't do what you don't want them to do because they love you so much!"
Dr. Elliott Barker, Director, Canadian Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children
Please read:
Ten Reasons Not to Hit Your Child: http://www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/tenreasons.html
Twenty-Two Alternatives to Punishment: http://www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/22_alternatives.html
Ten Ways We Misunderstand Children
http://www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/misunderstand.html
BTW spanking is currently banned in 30 countries and counting. Some day it will be illegal everywhere. Then all parents will have to learn more creative and compassionate responses. Let’s start now!
I'm trying to find the issue here...Nope can't find it. Just because you are an attached parent does not mean that you need to let your child walk all over you.
I have a two-year-old also. He gets swats for being willfully disobeying his father and me. There is no problem. The problem comes when people who think they know better like to step in where they were not welcomed and assume they know what is best for my child.
We had something similar happen to us. At the grocery store my son started to throw a temper-tantrum over not getting something with Cars on it. He was given a swat and put back in the cart without much issue. An older woman walks up and scolded my husband and me saying, "Was that really necessary?" I just looked at her like she was daft and said, "Yes. Yes it was." Then we moved on with our shopping.
You're doing a great job as a mom, ignore the naysayers. They're just jealous.
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